North Wales Mine Leaders user group meeting

Hi All,

I’d like to organise a meeting for those who regularly lead groups underground in the mines of North Wales. The aim of the meeting is to try and discus a range concerns that some users have expressed over the last few months, as well as other topics such as access, bolting, radon and this years round of mine inspections. Can I just highlight the concerns expressed have not been targeted at one user group in particular, but broadly!

If you’re available please let me know by following the link: http://doodle.com/poll/57hb9nby7ad6ht6b with your availability, we can then make a decision on a date & venue. The link is also available on the North Wales Mines website: www.northwalesmines.worpress.com

Rough Agenda

  • Welcome/Introductions
  • Access
    • Chat from Dave Tyson, representing CAL (Cave Access Ltd) who are now managing access to some of the mines owned by National Resources Wales (previously the Forestry Commission)
  • Recent rockfalls underground
  • Rhiwbach parking
    • Concerns expressed about the number of vehicles parked in Cwm Penmachno
  • Group sizes underground
    • Concerns expressed about the number within individual parties being led underground
  • No-go areas
    • Groups continuing to lunch in large chambers for example
  • Anchors underground
    • Results of the BCA supported testing of anchors in slate; should we have a preferred anchor?
    • Funding of anchors
  • Radon testing this year
  • Mine Inspections for this year
    • Any additional sites people would like to have inspected & are people available to accompany Les
  • Do we need a more formal users group or an annual users meeting such as this one
    • Look at what’s being done in the Peak District
  • AOB

To make this worth while it would be great to get a broad range of input, so if you are available please let me know ideally here: http://doodle.com/poll/57hb9nby7ad6ht6b. Also let me know if theres anything else you’d like to discuss.

All the best

Gethin
https://northwalesmines.wordpress.com

Rhiwbach Entrance

Hi All,

As I’m sure everyone is aware there was a small(ish) land slide at the entrance to Rhiwbach a few weeks ago. Last week I managed a good look, and as well as some topsoil and smallish gravel sliding out of the bank on the left of the entrance there also appears to have been some movement/clearing off of surface vegetation and rocks from the entrance. There’s some photos of the entrance here:
One thing to keep an eye on is a large block above and left of the entrance which has got some cracks running along the bottom, side and back of it. It’s probably worth keeping an eye on, and, as with all entrances/exits, best to gather groups away from the entrance and move people through quickly.
Worth being particularly vigilant given the rain over the last few days/weeks (feels like months…) Please do let us know if anything changes in the mines.
Last week we had to inflate the front of the boat, if you find it the same could you let us know; it may need a repair. When the water levels go up significantly the boats been known to wander off down the entrance adit, so it may be worth tying it up at the far end of the boating pool if you’re one of the last groups in the mine.
Gethin

Rhiwbach rockfall

Comment: Rhiwbach Fall.
Yesterday (19th July 2015) our staff reported a fallen block in the ‘Caban’ chamber of the drainage level in Rhiwbach slate mine. The fall occurred in the rear of the chamber, an area not normally visited by groups or staff.  If you were to stand with the caban on your immediate right looking inbye, this is the area of the chamber directly in front of you. The staff member was in the chamber when the fall occurred, and based on his experience as a slate quarryman and quarry blaster, he estimated the fall to be in the region of 1 to 2 tons.  We have had the chamber roof inspected by a CIC holder today, who has reported back to us that the roof and chamber walls in the immediate area used by staff going to get the boat are not affected by this fall. Misty conditions due to the wet weather today did not allow for a totally clear view of the rearmost reaches of the chamber, so at this point we have been unable to establish the exact location and extent of the fall.  Another inspection will be done tomorrow, hopefully with better visibility in the chamber.  I am aware that some users take their groups to have lunch near the caban in this chamber, and would urge all users to exercise extreme caution in this area.  We will inspect this chamber and the surrounding areas on a daily basis for the next few weeks and report any updates or further changes here.
Chris Phillips Operations Manager, Go Below Underground Adventures Ltd.

2015 Mine inspection repors now available

This years inspection reports are now available to download. Please get in touch with the 2 email addresses you’d like to register with the scheme to gain access to the reports.

This years reports are likely to cost a little more than previous years as we’re planning some Radon tests over the Summer months. The results of the tests will be made available as soon as we have them.

Gethin

2015 Mine Inspection Reports available soon

This years mine inspection reports have now been completed and will be available soon.

We’ve extended some areas and have had to remove one chamber on floor 1 (technically floor 2) of Rhiwbach, this being the forth chamber in along the last set of workings to the right (as you’re walking in) of the main adit. Also the chamber on floor 4 with the remains of a tripod on the floor (third to the right of the main drive) which had access partly into the chamber has had the whole chamber condemned. Plans of the effected areas have been emailed to those who’ve purchased the reports.

Also some rock was taken down in Wrysgan on floor 3, in the same area highlighted a few months ago. This route has not been condemned but does require monitoring.

We’ll be looking to conduct Radon tests in a few of the main mines used this Summer, so the cost of this years reports will be slighting increased to cover this cost. We’ll publish the results of the Radon tests as soon as we get them.

Gethin

Mine inspections 2015

We’re looking to run this years mine inspections from the 16th of March, with the view to publish the reports in April (next financial year).
With this years reports we’ll also look at repeating the Radon tests conducted several years ago, so the overall cost of the reports may go up  a little.
Provisional programme is as follows:
16th March, Fish Caves & Talargoch
17th March, Cwmorthin & Wrysgan
18th March, Rhiwbach & Bwlch y Plwm
19th March, Minllyn & Gaewern
If you’re available/interested in accompanying Les during the inspections could you let me know.
Could you please confirm you’re wanting to buy into this years set of reports.

Gethin

Anchors in slate testing

Happy New Year!

Over the Christmas break we’ve placed several more anchors in 4 different test beds around North Wales, 2 in Cwmorthin, 1 in Corris and another in Cambrian (near Llangollen). There’s more info here: http://www.train4underground.co.uk/bolts-in-slate-testing-project/
We’re planning to test these anchors to destruction, having first “exercising” some of them (by pulling them to 6kN 6 times) to see how them perform. This should give us some statistically sounder data on how anchors perform in slate including different areas.
A rough timetable at the moment is to head to Cwmorthin on Tuesday the 6th of January, then Cambrian on the 7th of January (probably around 10am each day).
If you’re interested in helping out (and we really could do with some help! There’s some pretty heavy kit to carry up!!) please do get in touch

Gethin

Results from testing some of the fixed ropes in Rhiwbach

A few months ago I sent the rope we’ve been using to manage the short traverse to the start of the tyrolean in Rhiwbach to the BCA for testing. The rope had been in place for a little over 2 years. As well as the used rope I also retained a unused length of the rope so we could compare the used and unused rope.

Here’s the results…

Hi

 You sent me three ropes.  I have put the BCA hand line experiment rope to one side awaiting other ropes from that experiment to test.  I took your other two samples and have just tested them.  I took the unused length and cut it into two samples labelled AB and BC.  I took the used sample  and cut it into 3 samples labelled DE, EF and FG, see photos.  So end G was by the broken sheath in the used rope.

 

Sample Drops Survived
AB 15
BC 12
DE 11
EF 10
FG 15

 

All samples broke on the following drop.  FG was subject to a delay during testing (my winch line almost broke and needed replacing) which might go towards explaining its higher number of drops survived.  But I do not think the results justifying claiming there is a difference between the ropes.

I define ‘broke’ as the rope not arresting the test mass’s movement.  I use this definition because the ropes did show a peculiarity in behaviour which I have seen a few times in large diameter rope.

For sample AB, I noticed damage in the sheath as it came out of the knot after drop 12.  In drop 14, the sheath parted exposing the core.  (I did not think to count the number of intact cords.)  After drop 15 I counted 10 intact cords (out of 16).  It broke on drop 16.

 For sample BC I noticed damage in the sheath as it came out of both knots after drop 9.  In drop 12, the sheath parted exposing the core and I counted 12 intact cords (out of 16) after the drop.  It broke on drop 13.

 For sample DE the sheath broke on drop 10 and I counted all 16 cords intact after the drop.  After drop 11, I counted 14 cords intact.  It broke on drop 12.

 For sample EF I noticed damage to the sheath after drop 8.  The sheath broke during drop 10 and after the drop I counted 13 cords intact.  It broke on drop 11.

 For sample FG, I noticed damage to the sheath as it came out of both knots after drop 12.  More damage to the sheath was observed at the bottom knot following drop 14.  During drop 15 the sheath broke and after the drop I counted 9 cords intact.  All bar 2 cords broke in drop 16.  Although these two cords remain connected to both sides of the sample, the length is such that I think they must be broken somewhere within the intact sheath. 

 I have to admit I do not usually look for damage at the point where the sheath on the active rope exits the knot so I can’t say if the above observations were timely or comprehensive.  But I do recall seeing this before on 11mm ropes.  Perhaps I should do it as a routine.  From memory, separate sheath breakage is unusual for smaller diameter ropes.  Usually and certainly for thinner ropes, the sheath and cords break simultaneously.  I hesitate to suggest but possibly one might examine the knots on installed ropes to check for such damage before use as a possible indicator of prior abuse.  I think I would have to do a wide range of tests to build up confidence to say that such damage always occurs well before break.  And I also think it is only a feature of large diameter rope which is in good condition.  As it happened I also tested two samples of supposedly 12mm rope in the past few days which broke as normal (having survived 3 and 6 drops) with no sheath breakage.

 I did not bother to take photos of the damage; instead I thought I would send the rope back to you.  It is currently drying and with a bit of luck I will post it on Monday.

 I should add the tests was conducted using a wet 0.8m overall length sample and used a Fall Factor 1.0 drop each time.  

 BS EN 1891:1998 requires that a Type A SRT rope can survive at least 5 drops using a 2m long sample.  However this test is done on a specially conditioned dry rope.  As wetting the rope will reduce the number of drops survived by around a factor of two, I conduct tests using a rope which has been immersed in water for at least two hours.  But the reduced length of the samples I use to test do not impart the same impact on the rope.  Some work suggests this over estimates the drop survivability of the rope.  

 BCA is not able to offer advice on the implications of these results, but if you want clarification do ask.

 Regards

 Bob

GT rope a

GT rope b